. ago. Before starting trt I wanted to try something that was less drastic than a life of pinning twice a week. bio mk677 at 25mg a day, black stone labs glycolog and strike first nutrition transdermal testosterone as my test base and I gotta say for only being day 4 I can. My other option was to just run 1-andro and 4andro but I wanted more gains since I’m risking it anyways. Decided to run a DHEA PH cycle to see how I like the results. DOALLDRUGS • 1 yr. Yeah I have 4 andro rn and I was looking at dermacrine and saw it was $50 a bottle, but idk how many pumps and how much 4 dhea is in each. First thing we always wanna cover on this is that orals are harsh on your system. What's on the market today like what you get in HiTech. Fucking nothing at all. Comparing cost trest also seems a little more cost effective than Stano-TD due to the amount of. Which is a good thing. GAINZFORDAYZ Member. for estrogen regulation: 100mg Arimistane (androsta-3 5-diene-7 17-dione) daily for 30 days. . If you are using multiple Andros, simply follow the twice per day dosing schedule, and take your. Which of the two would be a better test base? (for a cycle with dry bulkers) I am guessing 4 andro (@ 330 mg Ed) would be better seeing as it converts into testosterone itself, as opposed to DHT like Epi. Only 4 andro or test Edit: to answer your questions, keep taking the DHEA throughout your cycle, even after if you want, but DHEA will not be strong enough on its own to recover your test if its needed. Andro-4D is also known as 4-androstenolone or 4-AD, which is the body’s most potent endogenous androgen. My question is, has anyone ever used a PH like 1 andro or 4 andro as a test base during LGD? If you are going to have to PCT after using LGD, shouldn't we be taking something to elevate T while on cycle. transdermal 4-andro, dhea, epi andro etc. 1 andro at higher doses can cause lethargy and a lack of libido, but the 4 andro acts more as a test base and fights these side effects. Looking to start a test only cycle, but I would like to avoid the dark web for test and gear in general. I would really recommend Andro-Hard it’s like 40 bucks and would last you 2 months. I’m just wondering like what the best stack of prohormones would be. The base depends on your cycle as well. 76% to test and 4-andro is around 5%. Anyone use 4 andro cream as a base yet? Not sure if recommended 2 pump dose is sufficient for test base (100mg per 2 pump) or if I should just double it for 200 mg a day. I have the bottles of product on hand but I'm not in a big rush to run it. In vivo 4-androstene-3,17-dione and 4-androstene-3 beta,17 beta-diol supplementation in young men. Very little is known about. Ostarine barely suppressed my test but really suppressed my shbg so I had high estrogen sides on it. Jul 3, 2017. ago The only good test base is actual testosterone. e replace natural levels) while 1-andro does the work. Also, 4 andro is supposed. I know alot of people are not fans of this I understand the side effects however with that being said I've ran 400mg's before and put on a respectable 15 pounds and about 10lbs of it being muscle in 4 weeks with insane strength gains. I got by with 4 pumps a day with the 4 andro cream on a rad 140 cycle and it worked great and the gains were alright for the time. I have liver and organ defender. TEST BASE 26 ANDROGEN BASE TOPICAL 4 Andro Cream ReviewResults 26 Side Effects by Ryan Russo. Ostarine barely suppressed my test but really suppressed my shbg so I had high estrogen sides on it. 4andro as a base. U only want to run that 5 weeks so yea start with the lgd and week 4 add the andro in Ehh I believe it's fine dependant on dose and topical vs oral. Just my 2 cents, 25mg should be the max dose of Ostarine you use without shutting yourself down. Would 1 ml a day be too low of a dose for a solid test base or should i shoot for 2 ml a day at 300mg. From memory you only have 10-15% converting to testosterone. Apr 18, 2019. Don’t use steel, complete sham for the money. Getting to the midpoint of cycle and expect base strength to increase by 15% by time cycle is over. Taking both at recommended dosage just to dip my toes in. PM me. During Weeks 1-4 ~ 1-Andro Rx™ 2 capsules per day (1 cap AM & 1 cap PM) During Weeks 1-8 ~ Advanced Cycle Support Rx™ - 2 capsules per day (organ and. 4-Androsterone is a type of chemical known as a "prohormone. It will drive your Test levels way down. Awards 0. 5 mg. . If you are going on a journey - do your cycle before or after . It's a waste with dbol because dbol is its own base, that's why dr. Reply reply. It can be stacked with Ephedra, Epi-andro, Epistane, 19 nor. Apply in areas with the least amount of bodyfat; traps, delts, arms, quads, and lats. I heard topical dhea like dermacrine is good for lethargy. I've been reading many confusing subs so im not sure anymore. Also regarding the test base, I am actually thinking of adding it but I am super concerned about the online websites that sell steroids because steroids are illegal contrary sarms. Bottom-Kek- • 6 mo. Prohormones. 4-Andro: 4-Androsterone, also known as 4-Andro or 4-DHEA, is a prohormone that converts into the hormone testosterone in the body. Excessive use can lead to unpleasant and long-term side effects. . . Use dermacrine it will help with. Enclomophine binds to estrogen receptors preventing the conversion of sex hormones into estrogen, keeping hormones at steady levels throughout cycle. You must take 4 andro because it’s what converts into test/estrogen 4 andro cream is 50 mg per pump but since it’s transdermal you get overall more absorption . . I can start my next cycle in 6 weeks and am thinking about options. Datmetaldrummer95. Repair of the torn pec is. 00 with ⓘ. I’m just wondering like what the best stack of prohormones would be. Adding 4 Andro to dbol is 100% pointless and will cause more potential for estrogen side effects without any benefits at all. Also, 4 andro is supposed to provide some potential wet gains on its own. It's not going to be the same as pinning test, but it's good stuff. 4-andro should squash those side effects. Plan your cycles accordingly . Will dose the 4-andro at 4 pumps a day, so it should last 25 days (I think). I hear that Rad140 anabolic ratio is 80:1 whereas 1-andro target conversion 1-Test has 2:1. Even 5-10mg will work, there's some places that still use dbol as hrt. About to run a rad140 cycle. but I should add that I was also running OL's epiando with it. It personally was my favorite sarm cycle. I’m just really hoping it’s a solid product. New. I know 4-Andro is also a popular Test Base but the possible estro conversion is offputting for some. #5. Any sarm can be ran without a test base. Aug 16, 2023. 4. I found 4-Andro worked well. I’m on day 3 today of just the 1-Andro, and will be adding in epi-andro for the remaining 6 weeks. Enclo for pct. The Andro Project: Physiological and hormonal influences of androstenedione supplementation in men 35 to 65 years old participating in a high-intensity resistance. How does 4-Andro sound as a test base for a 6-8 week cycle of D-Bol? No pinning. My only experience with PEDs is with 1-andro and 4-andro, so the Anavar and 11-keto are new for me. I started this in another section but I’m going to import a lot of those posts here. I followed recommended dosage on the bottle which was two pills per day, spaced out. Kreos2688 • 1 min. Or you could use estrodiol to keep you estro in order. 1 pump of 4-andro isn’t going to come close to 130mgs of test. So in the past i have been critical of 4 andro as a viable test base because of the liver toxicity and low conversion rate to actual test requiring large doses multiple times daily. Which of the two would be a better test base? (for a cycle with dry bulkers) I am guessing 4 andro (@ 330 mg Ed) would be better seeing as it converts into testosterone itself, as opposed to DHT like Epi. Most other products have lower doses but added delivery systems and versions (BSL, APS, and others). What it is especially helpful for is upping E2 levels, as these get crashed when running SARMs (especially. Make sure to run a proper PCT too. Most important addition to 1-Andro run is test/4-Andro/DHEA. Thoughts? B Man Member. Test bases are more for a balance of hormones, as they also can convert to estrogen, to help, or attempt to, lethargy, sexual sides, etc. If you take any more than that, 4-andro will have anabolic effects on its own. 4 Andro is the prohormone to 4AD, and 4AD is the prohormone to testosterone. . Epiandro will provide the same "base" as 4 andro but is a lot drier and has no estrogen conversion. I strongly recommend that you add 4-andro ASAP you'll feel better within a week for sure. 🌟 #sarms #steroids #dangers FOLLOW ME ON INSTAGRAM : ⇝ @russolifts : 16 comments Best Top New Controversial Q&A ferdumorze • 1 yr. Transdermal 4 andro is better than a serm base imo. Just be aware that 4-AD does have a slight conversion to estrogen aswell as to testosterone and Epi-Andro converts to DHT. I am dosing 440/440/440 for 3 weeks of my 4 week Decaplexx and H50 cycle (18 methyl 19nor-test, m1-4add, m. #4. I would either stop the 4-Andro, do a PCT, if more than a few weeks in, do more research and reasses. 1. Awards. I think the term "test base" is probably not the right term you are looking for (unless you want a TRT). But if you are already ok with pinning, just do a test cycle tbh. Answer: Implement a testosterone base. 4 Andro as a test base, but you would need a real PCT with a SERM. A prohormone that converts into testosterone in the liver, and it’s as close as we can get to an effective form of oral testosterone. Do 20mg of RAD and 10mg of YK-11 (YK dosed twice a day) for 8 weeks. If your running dbol you won't need a test base dbol with rad alone should be fine without running the 4 andro plus you will be running 2 wet compounds if you run all 3 keep an eye on your estrogen Reply Liver support won't harm you though. Don't listen to this guy. I asked here recently about test base without syringes (as they're highly illegal to possess in my country) and got some good advice re: test cream. The Yk-11 should be good enough to help you from feeling suppressed. 1month cycles of prohormones are waste of your health and money . 30 patches that can be popped open and gel squeezed out. Very little is known about the. Dosage: 10-20mg ED for 8 weeks. Hey guys so as the name suggest on a generous dose of TRT 240- 260mg depends on blood levels 1,400ish total 24-36 hours post shot. 4 Andro, a prohormone that can potentially be a potent alternative to SARMs for bodybuilders, is well-known for its profound effects on increasing lean muscle mass. I know there is a lot of speculation as to the efficacy of DHEA when taken orally. No my plan is to go on cycle while out of. Menu. Hi, I was wondering about using 4-andro as t base for a Rad cycle and 7-keto during cut. And I'm asking for more of a recomp/lean gains. 1-andro’s main benefit is definitely strength. Try a 1andro 4andro stack instead of the sarmsJul 23, 2019. Strong product, I highly recommend!”-Christopher O. 330 mgs daily of 4 dhea is perfect. I got the 4-andro from first Rat's Army and then IronMag Labs. Hell, I would rather skip a "test base" altogether rather. Choose an option 60ct/50mg per cap/3000mg Clear. Goal: Cut / re-comp Havoc 20/30/40/40/40/40 Was thinking of adding low dose Dermatrest at 50mg throughout or 4 -Andro at 200-300mg I. Thanks all! Depends on what your taking and how it. You don’t need a base of you’re running ultra hard solo but 4-andro can kick things up a notch for sure. Reactions: PoSiTiVeFLoW. 2. So androtest (fusion supps) is 4ad, the Andro with 15% conversation rate to Test. It is best to split the dose into two equal parts. Super 4-Andro Cream. May 8, 2016 #9 subbed . Tbol and 4-Andro should treat you nice, but I would suggest 6 weeks for both compounds to get the most out of the cycle. Which his 4 Andro if dosed properly will do just that and effectively be an oral test base. Application is optimal on clean skin with minimal hair. By conversation rate. I received 1 andro cream instead and had to reorder the 4 andro cream. Also, even running 4-Andro by itself, I experienced significant suppression. 4-Andro is a test base. I know there is a lot of speculation as to the efficacy of DHEA when taken orally. Restores Natural Testosterone Levels. 4-Andro is wet and has potential for estrogen conversion, but you'll also likely have the most muscle gain with this. Yes. However a test base, will eliminate any possible side effects commonly associated with suppression. And no, I can't pin yet. You'd need more than 30 patches a,week to. you body making enzymes 3hsb 17hsb - enzymes conversion andro to 1-test , (target hormones) in limited in time and resource dosage. Yes, 4-Andro is technically considered a pro hormone. I know at a minimum I'd want a test booster or something to help with PCT and I'll research that stuff later (before I purchase anything) but for now, just want to determine what, if anything, I'd want to take from the above. Andros aren’t going to convert 100% to test. It is a. 4-androstenedione converts to estrogen (and to test?). Perhaps running a more suppressive sarm (LGD/RAD) along with 4-Andro cream would yield considerably better results than sarms alone with (maybe) slightly lesser negative impacts on the body to AAS. “Andro the Giant is by far the best 4 andro supplement. You are going to repeat this for 4 to 8 weeks, depending on how long you choose to run your cycle. I never used 4-andro, but I know that it does convert to test which will raise my estrogen levels. Besides SERMs, I've also heard the taking a moderate dose of 4-andro (100-200mg a day) can be utilized as a test base when taking stronger SARMs like LGD-3033. Of course not. Business, Economics, and Finance. . 🧿 FULL SOURCE-LIST 🚨 ⇝ 🌟 ☽. 3. 4-DHEA aka 4-andro is a 2 step conversion to test. If you are using multiple Andros, simply follow the twice per day dosing schedule, and take your. 4 andro converts to real test Reply More posts from r/SARMs. Besides SERMs, I've also heard the taking a moderate dose of 4-andro (100-200mg a day) can be utilized as a test base when taking stronger SARMs like LGD-3033. Without a Test base, the RAD will have you feeling very lethargic soon. #3. 15. Rated 4. It says to take 150mg a day so take 300mg a day. But for some it gets too dry and get lethargic very quick on something like Epistane. Applying after a shower is recommended, also timing one dose prior to workout may be beneficial. ago. With the 4 Andro in the mix don’t mess around with useless otc test boosters. The only otc that could be used as base—and it’s a bad one at that—is 4-Andro. My doubt is if is better a stack like: - 1 andro TD high dose 250mg + 450mg epiandro cyclodextrine Or something like: -Low dose 1 andro TD Like. Should be relatively easy to come up with ratios of conversion of both from those numbers. 1ad is 1-testosterone. Sweet, thanks for the support! More to come! SwoleNation Member. Apr 18, 2019. Menu. 4-Andro would be a great option too, but much more expensive. And I think 1 pump per day for a week comes out to around 110mg test per week. By using 4-Andro as a “test base”, users are able to extend their SARMs cycles further than the normal 6-8 weeks. “DHEA converts into a bunch of different hormones within the body, one of them being Estrogen. As for what test base you should take, since clearly your a beginner I would recommend just going with dermacrine, Epi-Andro or 4-andro. Using an SERM like Nolva or Clomid is always great but using M-Test, Sustain Alpha or K1ngs Blood will do you just right You will get suppressed, but the 4 Alpha will help greatly in that, its why everyone uses it as a test base because it helps with lethargy and sex drive. I would definitely do 4-AD with the 1-Andro. so 4-andro at 330 a day ends up roughly 115mg test a week (trt dose). 4-Andro and 7-Keto dhea source. Sorry When selecting a Test Base, look at the other compounds your planning on taking. Yes 4 andro is a base androgen you can use. (4 weeks on 10mgs ED, and 4 weeks on 20mgs ED). 4. Gaming. in trt. Sarm. Ehh I believe it's fine dependant on dose and topical vs oral. 4-Andro is another oral alternative to testosterone injections. You buy Testosterone and inject it. Trest maybe if you have experience but you don't seem like you have used anabolics that much. #4. chedapalooza said: Each patch has 20mg test. s use it for hormone replacement therapy. Second would be some DHT product like Epiandro and/or Androsterone for example, to give a little push and probably. I was sent 2 bottles of 4-Andro, and will be dosing the product at 2 caps a day (100mg of 4-Andro) as directed for a total of 60. Strength. . Do NOT run 1 Andro with Ostarine/Rad 140 or use Ostarine with rad 140 that is just stupid. 4-Andro is a compound that converts to testosterone is primarily used as a test base for 1-Andro cycles or any other suppressive SARM like RAD140, LGD-4033, or S-23. ago. Jan 31, 2023 #2 I might have some 4andro topical along with apex epiandro. Until I can find a good TRT doc the plan is to attempt TD Trest as my base. You can start at week 2-3 and keep using it even a week or two after the cycle as a mini PCT. ago. Quale dei due pro-ormoni si presenta più efficace sia in chiave anti-aging, sia in fase di incremento di m. I want to know between those two thanks. Should be a real fun ride! Andro the giant is only 75 a bottle. I've ran this before and it was good with proper diet, training, and PCT(SERM), but results were nothing like Test so don't expect that. Unfortunately, oral DHEA is not very bioavailable so finding a good dose could be difficult. Would 20-30mg / day be too little to get started and get a good feel? It is also assumed that application every 12 hours would be the best course of action. Upon. Feb 28, 2021. ago. A Test base will keep your levels from getting completely. Secondly, fitness experts and workout enthusiasts have varying suggestions on daily dosage. 4 Andro as a Test Base . So you could use that, or real test. Epiandro will definitely keep your hard and dry. As far as goals go, I think I'd prefer to. MrFlexo. 4 andro as the base. Since OP did not ask that, the answer should be YES, NO, or MAYBE. No ostarine will just supress you ,the 4 andro wich converts to real Test will shut you down complitely and you will need pct 1000%. 🌟 #sarms #steroids #dangers FOLLOW ME ON INSTAGRAM : ⇝ @russolifts : The 4 andro "test base" will make you feel better during cycle but will make a solid pct necessary. However if you plan to run 5 to 8 mg per day for 8 weeks, it may not be worthwhile to take the 300 mg of 4 andro. There are no human trials so I based this off the only reported half life, approximately 12 hours, which was in rats. Yea I think you should always use some for of a text base whether its testosterone or 4-andro or even test ozone from muscle gelz. Any prohormone other than 4-andro will not aid in avoiding the side effects associated with suppression, because no prohormone other than 4-andro converts to estrogen. 199. A true “wet” bulking agent, Andro the Giant’s main ingredient converts into the master hormone, Test. 3 max. Waste of money imo. You are going to repeat this for 4 to 8 weeks, depending on how long you choose to run your cycle. My go to supplemet. I would run a test base if I were you cause the suppression will be strong. 100mg of 4-andro is comparable to a low TRT dose of injectable testosterone. But people who use 4-Andro are using it as a Test base, so they are already going to be suppressed from the use of other compounds, and rarely do oral-only cycles reach 12-weeks in length. felt like a tank. Find the latest supplements at the best prices at strongsupplementshop. back in the day I'd dose 200mg 4-andro-diol every 4-5 hours, with 400mg pre workout. Looking to run Mk-677 and Ostarine. Menu. so I wouldn’t recommend it as a test base. The logic behind taking DHEA as a base is that it would provide the same benefits as taking regular oral estrogen. Awards 4. 1ad is 1-testosterone. Just finished purchasing everything. I'll most likely stick to primarily sarms and run a ph/as cycle once a year or so. Supplement Forum Supplement Logs Company Promos Supplement Deals Supplement Companies Nutrition Forum Weight Loss Forum Training Forum Pro Bodybuilding Forum Natural Bodybuidling Anabolic. It would be very expensive. It’s not taken as a test base for actual test increases. 1. #1. 5-8week. have run rad140 but. 🧿 FULL SOURCE-LIST 🚨 ⇝ 🌟 ☽. Nov 10, 2016. Anabolics: 8: Jul 12, 2021: Best Oral/TD Test base: Anabolics: 42: Jun 22, 2021: Best alternative test base? Oral, transdermal, or 4-andro? Anabolics: 2: Jun 16, 2021: Best OTC medicine for oral nausea: Anabolics: 12: Feb 5, 2020: Unanswered Best Oral Bulker and. I have limited PH experience but I have done my research and, still, continue to learn more here. Inhibit e supplement is all you need if you feel estro is to high. afluck410. Test base is in the word Testosterone base, Either in A SERM which is going to help with supression, a testosterone prohormone like 1-andro, 4-andro, topical 1-DHEA etc. Side note: 1-andro and Epiandro are mildly suppressive and won't shut you down completely as would other more harsh compounds in the AAS world. Maybe Hcg to keep your fsh and LH hormones up. I want to run rad-140 but I have been told to have a test base. . Fine to add in although I don't see much point. 4 andro and blood drops are your only oral options man. 1 andro and 1ad do the opposite of a test base and that's. • 2 yr. I powerlift and I really only care about strength and like the idea of. Sleep (8 hours of sleep) Repeat the process - 24 hours will be covered by the second day of starting and so on. 4-AD aka 4-ADiol is a 1 step conversion to test. In your personal experience, we’re you utilizing 4-Andro in high dosages (say 300 - 400mg) daily as a test base upon which to add either Android or SARMS? I think a large misconception about 4-Andro comes from the fact that it’s advertised as such a bulking hormone, with water weight accrual being almost certain, that people generally tend. Ancillary supplements: NAC: 800-1200mg/day; Fish Oil: 6 capsules a day; Berberine: 300-500mg before a carb-heavy meal (more than 50g of carbs) B6 (P5P): 100mg/day before bed; RAD 140 + CARDARINE. 26 comments. Secondly, fitness experts and workout enthusiasts have varying suggestions on daily dosage. Awards 1. Similar to Super Mandro, Andro the Giant offers up to 330%. Additional comment actions. Even on trt I've seen some ppl have issues on 1 andro. ago. #9. If you're going to go for 4 Andro orally, you'll need a lot of it since even the diol version of it converts to test at around 20% and those levels won't stay elevated as if you were to inject. Application is optimal on clean skin with minimal hair. #5. Nov 10, 2016. Also, epiandro stimulates the nervous system so strength gains are much better than 4 andro. (Developed an allergy. it's much more efficient. Looking for a test base to curb lethargy with SD. Andro the Giant by Hard Rock Supplements - Ranked number one in the test base category for providing the overall best quality and value all in one! 90 tablets all dosed at 110 mg per tablet featuring liposomal delivery for maximum delivery/absorption. In fact, this is already a Test cycle, and SARMs in this case is like a replacement for oral steroids. Electronic-Drive5078 • 3 mo. Right now I’m planning on running 4 Andro and 19 Nor for 6 weeks. MrKleen73 said: That, or simply run a cycle of oral for 4-8 weeks at a specific dose, do blood work, then for your next 4 andro run do a TD, at a certain dose for 4-8 weeks and then compare the 2 results. Pretty simple stuff. In my opinion they’re a waste of time. Started breaking out in handcuffs when I drank) And my diet is 80%clean. Home. Why not. PCT – Nolva 20/20/10/10 + Rebirth + Test Booster (still deciding which) Epiandro – 2 caps a day (100mg) R-Andro – 2-3 pumps a day (75mg per pump) Ordered 4-andro a couple weeks into the cycle, as well as a 2nd epiandro bottle to extend cycle. Use the 4 andro up and never look back. Enclo makes the libido and T skyrocket. Forums. 10-12 hours later, take 1 tablet of 4-ANDRO on an empty stomach. You might get a 20% conversion to test if you’re lucky. Test Base Mid-Cycle. Secondary is muscle fullness, I always look fresh from the gym with a pump and vascularity. Topical DHEA - Dermacrine basically which is a precursor to all steroid hormones and lastly the 4 double bonded isomer of DHEA called 4-DHEA - Which will only convert to testosterone and then from test it can become estrogen or dht. M1, or SD, which are all basically steroids and at this point you may as well just do whatever and get some sort of test base. It personally was my favorite sarm cycle. But it’s not going to make meaningful changes in the context of increasing gains. Week 5 - 20mg Ostarine. #2. Stacking 4-Andro 4-Andro is a great standalone and a necessary component to all cycles. They compliment each other nicely. 5 is a lot man! Could even shut you down. #2. 4 andro will be of little to no use with a trt dose. . Standard Base-DHEA Added Aggression and Fat Loss-DHT/Epi-Andro . Others are best when ran with 4 andro or other test base, solo they kind of suck and require a high dose that makes it super expensive. This WILL NOT convert to estro, period. I'd go with real test tbh. especially after seeing someones transformation on msten over at the reddit prohormone sub. As far as goals go, I think I'd prefer to. The logical approach would be to run 4-ad as a test base and 1-andro as your anabolic compound. The difference between 4-Andro and 1-Andro is that 1-Andro is a dry bulking agent that helps to produce lean muscle gains with little to no water retention. Any thoughts on adding this mid cycle? Was thinking 150mg for the final 4 weeks of the cycle. 4-androstenediol has some androgenic effects of it's own. This is the reason that 4 andro is not really a great bulker (compared to something like real test). Ok-Dot-4835. this is a 2-3. You can use actual test at a trt dosage which would be the best. In most cases, it is best to take 4-Andro from 6 to 8 weeks at a time and then take a break for the same period of time, as well as get proper post-cycle therapy. BigRed9091 • 5 yr. ♦️TRY MORE IRONMAG LABS. ago. i bought a transport matrix to hold the 1,4 andro. But because its an exogeneous supplementation of testosterone, it will shut down your. I started at 100mg per day, then 220mg for a couple weeks. Broeder CE, et al. I think you would want minimum 100-150mg a day if you are just trying to use it as a test base Edit: Apparently the conversion rate of 4andro to testosterone is only around 5-15% so I think around ~100mg of 4andro a day might be sufficient (natty test production is around 3-10mg per day). I haven’t had many sides but I’m aware suppression can be a real thing towards the ladder half of your cycle. Trest is very potent and may add a host of sides. With 90 capsules per bottle, that's nearly 10,000 mg per bottle!Some people like the test base, and I don't think it converts to estrogen, so no ai unless yo end up going with test on top. Ok-Dot-4835.